A Sign Of Peace

This year, the musician and visionary, Benjamin Zander said,

“I can imagine a conversation between a Jew and an Arab which says, ‘It is a privilege to share this land which we inherited from our forefather, Abraham, and just think what we have given to the world in art and culture and knowledge and mysticism and religion, and what we could teach the world about living together.’ That is something! Now, that conversation hasn’t actually taken place yet. If it did, it would transform the world.”

On 29 December 2008 my daughters called me to the living room window to see a magnificent rainbow. It was indeed magnificent, and as all rainbows in the evening, it circled the east.

When I posted a picture of it on Flickr, Bonnie Kaplan said,

“What a great sign of good luck for all of us.”

I hope she is right. My hope is that it is a sign from the east that there will be peace in 2009 and for all time.

Experience is reality

I have always believed that the imagination is closer to reality than reality itself. As a child, I looked up at the sky and saw things in the clouds that didn’t exist here on earth.

But as I grew into an adult, I became quite naive. The sky is reality. What I saw really does exist. But it is through my imagination that I can see things in cloud patterns that may not appear to be at my level here on the surface of the earth.

Giuliana Guazzaroni, on Verso 3.0, has posted a video that takes me back to my childhood. The strangely accented voice of the narrator brings a matter-of-factness, almost ho-hum-ness to an unfolding digital future.

Take a look for yourself at who you are - the prosumer. Who will be the CEO of Prometeus?

Loosen the reins of your imagination; sit back; peek at a snapshot of the 50 years span of time that we are in; identify where you might be in 10, 20 or 40 years; enjoy!

The Media Revolution

The Media Revolution Part 2

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Help I've Been Tagged - Again!

Sue Waters has tagged me to list

7 things you really don’t need to know about me.

Truth is, I’ve already put a comment on Diane Cordell’s post, though she didn’t tag me, and I said it all there.

Ah but, being tagged means I have to write a post about it - if I accept the challenge. Then I think, “What’s this got to do with elearning?" Hmmm.

Oh well. Whatever. ‘Tis the season. I accept.

Here are 7 things you really don’t need to know about me:

1. Despite my love of words, I'm hopeless at languages. When at school I got 11% for Latin and 17% for French.
   Parliamo Italiano?
   
   
2. Though I don't have a fear of heights and I like hill climbing,
   I don't like rock climbing or mountaineering. The only similar sport that I dislike more than these is potholing. Potholing gives me the hebes.
   
   
3. Of the many years spent in three different countries, I enjoy living in NZ the best - that's why I've lived here for 34 years.
   I was born in Scotland, but it is too cold there in the winter. Malawi is nice - called Nyasaland when I lived there as a child.
   
   
4. At Downstage Theatre in Wellington in 1980 I had a part in the play, The Suicide, by the Russian playwright Nicolai Erdman, director Phillip Mann. It was a long play, almost 3 hours, and the season ran for 4 weeks. The play was extremely successful, with a cast of 16 actors and one fiddler. I was the (token) gypsy fiddler. I never spoke a word on the stage, which was fortunate, but I appeared first on the stage in scene 1.
   
   
5. The only reason I was 7 years studying at university was procrastination. At a time when I was about to go on to study teaching, after I had graduated the first time, I was offered a post-grad grant. I went into teaching 3 years later.
   
   
6. When my oldest son, Nicolas, was just over 2 years of age, he could catch flies in mid air. He never harmed them. He caught a wasp once, examined it closely, then let it go and wasn't stung. Only recently, I found that I had the same ability, though in over 50 years I'd never tried to catch a fly.
   
   I found out that I had this dubious talent when my daughter, Hannah, kept a pet female brown tree frog, Rocket, in a large vivarium. Rocket needed live food and lived for almost 4 years on what I caught for her - a record age for female Australian brown tree frogs, who live in the wild for only 16 months on average.
   
   
7. I was born Church of Scotland. I've studied several religions, including Buddhism. My wife was the Anglican parish secretary for years in Island Bay where we live, and continues to attend Church regularly. My youngest daughter, Catriona, travelled to Fiji this year, and lived there for almost a fortnight while she pursued her Anglican mission.
   
   I've played music at the Church and read readings. I've read the Bible - a goodly book that I enjoy reading - and know many quotes. But I'm not religious in the least. I stopped attending Church with my wife a few years ago as people got the wrong idea. They couldn't understand my acceptance of the Church versus my personal belief.
   

Mobiles in 2020

The earliest I recall watching a mobile phone in action was in 1991.
Rob Carter, then CEO of the Housing Corporation of New Zealand, addressed a conference of company trainers at a campus in Nelson. He'd been communicating directly by phone through most of his introduction by the presiding manager.

Carter’s mobile phone was the size of a slender builder's brick. It had an antenna that could have doubled as a child’s fishing rod and was heavy enough to inflict a painful injury if dropped on someone's foot.

By the end of the 90s the mobile phone, more commonly known as the cell phone or cell, was small enough to get lost in a handbag.

Customary usage:

One morning, while I was travelling to work in an almost full bus, a mobile phone went off in a woman's handbag. I could hear the device honking even though I sat several seats away. The woman searched frantically through her handbag as the honking got louder, the sound having been muffled by a copious collection of accoutrements.

She eventually found the phone and slapped it to her ear, shouting as if to communicate with a pedestrian in the street. Several passengers jumped in unison at the abruptness of her bellow.

Everyone, including the bus driver, was soon giggling as they listened in on one half of an intimate conversation. An elderly gent, sitting a few seats in front, turned and scowled in the direction of the banshee-like screeching, blinking at the ear-shattering outbursts.

When the conversation was over, she snapped shut her mobile, leaned forward and shouted, “Are you alright sir?” By this time the whole bus was well captivated by the commotion.

The gent turned very slowly, stared matter-of-factly at the woman for a few seconds, then spoke in a low, exquisitely clear voice.
“I didn’t think you’d need a phone with a voice like that!”

The whole bus erupted uproariously. I could feel the glow from her ears as the poor, hapless woman cowered in embarrassment.

Robust as:

At the beginning of this century, mobiles weren’t quite as sleek as they are now, but they could still fit in your pocket. My first mobile was a Christmas present from my son, Jack. It was a Philips, a bit bulkier than most, but remarkably robust.

One day I was running for a bus in town when my mobile dropped from my pocket, bounced off the kerb and cascaded its contents into the gutter. Instantly, a bus ran over the battery and halted at the bus-stop.

In desperation I collected all the bits I could see, including the battery, and grudgingly mounted the bus. After a few minutes spent squeezing the device back together again, I pushed home the battery. Immediately the display prompted me to reset the digital clock and the mobile made contact with the nearest cellular transmitter. I used that device for several years before it died.

So what for the future?

Ten years earlier, if I had suggested to someone that one day we’d have devices slightly bigger than a box of matches, that could be used to send text messages across the globe, I’d have been told that I was out of my tree.

Yet in 2001, while travelling by bus to work in Wellington, New Zealand, I was able to have regular text conversations with my daughter, Gemma, who lived in Harpenden in England. Today I can access the Internet with a mobile and update my blog.

It is predicted in The Future Of The Internet III that mobile devices will be commonly used to access the Internet in 2020. With the recent development towards a graphene chip, it is reasonable to think that future mobile devices will offer far more computing power and flexibility, enabling Internet access with a wide range of applications.

The predictions are that voice recognition will also be a standard capability of the mobile. With any luck, my computer dream might become a reality - before 2020 I hope!

related posts - >> ( 2 ) ( 1 )

Simply The Best

This month Joanna Young, of Confident Writing, challenges bloggers/ writers to select the best writing from their year’s posts. Accepting Joanna's challenge put a focus on what writing is all about for me.
I pick my September post, Learning and the Much Maligned Mistake.

This post is simply the best because it embraces learning, an important aspect of my blog, and is about the hallmark of the learner.
In particular, 2008 was a learning year for me; I learnt to be a blogger.

Good Will To All - Including Learners

Okay, okay! I admit it. I’m hooked. I’ve become a dyed-in-the-(New Zealand)-wool blogger, posting on Boxing Day. But I’m only responding to another dyed-in-the-wool blogger who posted on Christmas Day.

René Meijer's thoughtful and reflective post, My Learning Disabilities, is a response to Tony Karrer's, What Did You Learn About Learning 2008. René's post struck a chord with me that was almost a peal of Christmas bells.

He spoke of authentic and valid assessment, and posited that most people do not learn by engaging with the written word. I agreed, and I left a comment on his post. It ran something like this:

You say you understand that we only really learn by ‘interacting’.
I say, we need to define what’s meant by ‘interacting’. By my definition, you are correct.

Learning by interacting:

Others may have a different idea of what ‘interacting’ is all about and still agree with you. For instance, I believe that it is possible for interaction to take place when a learner is reading from a book. I know, I know, but this sort of interaction is indeed a high level thinking and learning skill, not often practiced by most learners.

You go on to ask, “How do we verify that learning has taken place, if we aren’t sure how (to) create authentic and valid assessments for the competencies we are not aspiring to instil?”

I say that the only way we can be sure that learning has taken place IS by authentic and valid assessment. I’m not criticising here - I’m concurring.

Assessing that learning has happened:

Thing is, our assessments may well show us that learning has taken place, but may not really validly measure to what extent it has occurred. This is not so much a problem for the learner as the teacher, but it is often placed as a burden on the learner. I think that this action is wrong.

But if I can put my glitch in here, assessment is all very well, but considering that it doesn’t always indicate what we (as assessors) think it should (in others words, it isn’t authentic and valid) we should restrict its use for us (as teachers) alone.

Assess the teaching not the learning:

That is to say that if it is neither authentic nor valid, it should NOT be used to assess the learner, especially if it is used as a measure of what the learner knows - more so because there is a difference between what is known and what was learnt. Note the use of tense in that last sentence.

My preference is that assessment should be used (exclusively) by and for the teacher. It should be confidential, between the learner and the teacher if such sharing is necessary. But it should be used by the teacher to validate that teaching has been effective, not that learning has taken place.

To use non-authentic, non-valid assessments against the learner is most unfair, especially if we realise that it is neither authentic nor valid. Most times it is not, and there are many reasons for this.

What's learnt on the learning pathway:

One of them, often not recognised or admitted, is when the particular assessment method applied fails the learner, by simply not recording what the learner has achieved along the learning pathways.

Extreme examples of this are an assessment test that returns a zero mark or a standard assessment criterion that reports a not achieved. Such instances can be interpreted as indicating that the learner has learnt nothing at all – a very unlikely scenario.

related posts - >> ( 9 ) ( 8 ) ( 7 ) ( 6 ) ( 5 ) ( 4 ) ( 3 ) ( 2 ) ( 1 )

Twelve Days Of Christmas

On the first day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the second day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the third day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the fourth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the fifth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the sixth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the seventh day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
seven Seesmics screaming,
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the eighth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
eight Delicious bookmarks,
seven Seesmics screaming,
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the ninth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
nine Diggers Digging,
eight Delicious bookmarks,
seven Seesmics screaming,
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the tenth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
ten Google searchings,
nine Diggers Digging,
eight Delicious bookmarks,
seven Seesmics screaming,
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the eleventh day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
eleven widgets wandering,
ten Google searchings,
nine Diggers Digging,
eight Delicious bookmarks,
seven Seesmics screaming,
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme.

On the twelfth day of Christmas
my browser brought to me
twelve bloggers blogging,
eleven widgets wandering,
ten Google searchings,
nine Diggers Digging,
eight Delicious bookmarks,
seven Seesmics screaming,
six Skypers Skyping,
five Open-Nings!
four wicked wikis,
three permalinks,
two Wordle blimps
and a tagged comment in a Twitter meme!

To all my great friends - bloggers, commenters, followers, visitors and mates, have a great time over the festive season.

Thanks for all your support and help. I really have appreciated being with you all this year.

That Remains To Be Seen

Learning, and one’s ability to retain it, depends on the distributed frequency of related study sessions over time.

Clark Quinn’s recent post, to do with the effectiveness of crammed learning, brought to mind a discussion I had with a colleague some years ago. We’d been inquiring about the rate of return of assignments from a distance learner who had crammed the equivalent of several months’ study into one day.

Does learning have a half-life?

Clark cited an article by Inga Kiderra outlining the research findings of Hal Pashler. What is learnt during a study session seems to decay. The rate of decay has a dependency based on the number of related study sessions in a series and its duration. A series of study sessions over a significant period of time has a cummulative effect and can lead to longer lasting retention.


Learning diminishes at a rate that relates inversely to the pace of distributed study sessions over time. It means that a series of crammed sessions, during the week before an examination, is unlikely to bring about learning that's useful a year or so later.

Competence over time:

A simple example of the properties of learning over time is how the skill and knowledge is remembered that’s needed to solve a quadratic equation in mathematics.

Though this is not an easy skill to obtain, it is one that can be acquired by a competent student of mathematics by cramming over a few days. To do this, competent learners have to grapple with new ideas, some concepts and some content. One piece of content that the experienced student needs to know is the formula for the solution:

A learner who has acquired the skills and knowledge during a few days of crammed study may be hard pushed a year or so later to remember that such a formula even exists, let alone how to apply it. If the practice of solving quadratic equations is not revisited during the interim period, there may be little remembered of the activity.

The learner who has gained skills and knowledge over several months of regular practice may not be able to remember the exact formula a year or so later either. However, recollection of the concept of solving a quadratic equation, as well as recalling that the formula exists, is more likely. It may be that the solution is only a Google search away.

What is really being assessed?

Every learner is different in the way they assimilate what is learnt. What one can gain usefully from a paced rate of learning may not be equivalent to that acquired by another, even if their end assessments are identical.

The ideas brought forward by Pashler’s research have implications for the results of tests that lead to qualifications, as in the New Zealand Qualifications Authority standards. One has to ask what is being assessed in these tests.

There is no doubt that a good result in a standard assessment shows that learning has occurred. This is a measure of the ability of the learner to learn and perhaps understand through study.

How do we test long-term retention?

Depending on what study has gone before, and the pattern of that over time, however, a grade in a standard test may not be a useful measure of learning that may be put to use in the future.

There are similar implications for the results obtained through online assessment. Study that’s performed online, by a learner who is able to access all the resources for a unit of learning, may not be carried out in the best way possible to enable long-term retention.

( 10 ) << - related posts - >> ( 8 ) ( 7 ) ( 6 ) ( 5 ) ( 4 ) ( 3 ) ( 2 ) ( 1 )

Let Me Count The Ways

The book and the paper it’s made from have recently taken a rap. The suggestion is that the book is outmoded. It's well past its use-by date in education and it's not environmentally friendly.

I like the book. Having had a lifelong association with the invention,
I realise my opinion inclines in its favour. To be fair to the book in the context of learning, however, the reasons gathered in support of its removal or replacement should be related to its merits and demerits as a learning resource.

When weighing the stresses, it is difficult to assess its effectiveness against digital counterparts unless a few ground rules are defined.

Judged by its cover

It is unfair to pitch the book against such things as an online chat or a wiki. Whatever the equivalents of these technologies will look like in future, their application and purpose cannot be compared, with any relevance, to those offered by a book. Try comparing the virtues of a submarine with those of a helicopter and you’ll see what I mean.

Neither is it fair to condemn the book just because its content may go out of date. Data in a web-page, a blog post or even a tweet are just as likely to go out of date, and for the same reasons, with no likelier promise of edits to correct these.

What are the benefits and drawbacks?

The rate of use of paper throughout the world is now higher than ever; it rages wildly and at a mounting pace. But it’s not the book, textbook, printed educational literature or school note-pad that is mainly to blame for the burgeoning rate of paper production. Advertising, and the wasteful packaging of goods, contribute to more than half the global consumption of paper.

More trees

This does not detract from the volume of paper consumed for educational purposes. It is huge. A recent article on campus sustainability and paper consumption by Clark University, reported that 720 trees are harvested each year to supply printer/copy paper for that establishment alone. It may be just a leaf in a tome, but I have an eye for conservation, and that fact leaves me pondering.

Burgeoning content

Sheryl Nussbaum-Beach states, in her September video, that by the year 2020, knowledge could be doubling every 72 hours.

She claims that by that time, there will be no place for the book in schools, as it would be impossible for it to keep pace with the rate of knowledge growth. Setting aside issues of relevance to the school curriculum, knowledge delivered at its predicted rate of creation by 2020 couldn’t possibly be accomplished in book form. I wonder if any data management system could ever deliver knowledge at such a rate - and for what purpose.

Pictures, images and diagrams

In the twentieth century, advances in the printing industry brought vibrant colour to illustrations in books. Only in the last 15 to 20 years has such quality of detail and colour been viewable on the computer screen.

The digital device has the edge on the book, with the use of diagrammatic sequence, melting images, moving images or other animated schema. Especially in student learning, there is a growing need for the use of visual images as learning tools to promote student understanding.

Videos in particular can provide amazingly detailed imagery. With the animation technology available today, it is possible to view a 3D virtual journey through the chambers of the human heart, or to observe the journey through the intake and exhaust valves of the internal combustion engine.

As David Whitehead said in his speech on strategies for improving literacy, simply asking students to imagine (as a thinking/learning tool) may not be as successful as it was in the past.

One might be forgiven for thinking that this may be as a result of the use of explicit animated imagery, rather than other teaching tools that are perhaps more likely to exercise the imagination of young minds. For as limited as a book may be in depicting complex concepts in pictures, its practiced use has the power to stimulate the imagination.

Visuals with text

When creating a learning resource, there is a tendency to overuse the features available to the digital resource designer. While acceptable and effective page design has become a well-established skill in textbook writing, the same cannot be said universally of digital learning resource design.

The misuse of PowerPoint as a learning tool highlights the vagaries of incorporating voice with text. Their joint use accompanying displayed images or diagrams in a learning resource causes cognitive overload in the learner. It is difficult to achieve this with a textbook. Verbal and written information simply cannot be presented simultaneously unless the teacher speaks while the learner is trying to read.

Copyright moves quick quick to music

One of the wonderful things about books is their ability to be shared.
A book, when first sold, can then be lent, gifted or sold again – the so-called first-sale doctrine.

But for the existence of that principle, libraries, second-hand book and CD stores, as well as video rental outlets would be illegal. Though there have been several attempts made over the decades to place restrictions on the resale of printed books, actions restricting the sharing of digital equivalents have moved more fiercely. It seems that even the publishers of printed resources may now wish to cash in on this idea.

It was suggested in The Future Of The Internet III that copyright protection technology may dominate content control in 2020. A little less than a third of expert opinion surveyed agreed that this was a likely scenario.

The tractable e-book

As I said at the start of this soliloquy, I like the book. But the thought of a digital replacement still excites me. I’ve yet to get my hands on an e-book, like the Amazon Kindle. As Jim Henderson says:

"For this to go, there has to be buy-in by the publishers."

Video

Top Ten Commenters 2008 and a Wordle Meme

When I took part in the Comment Challenge this year, I not only became a blogger, but I also learnt a huge pile of techniques and different ways to go about writing a blog post. One technique I learnt was to cover more than one topic in a post – a very fine tack when attempting to follow a busy schedule of blog assignments.

I’m using that technique in this post for I am honouring requests from two respected bloggers, Andrea Hernandez of EdTech Workshop and Paul C of quoteflections.

Paul’s request for my 2008 Top Ten List brought me, once again, to consider my wonderful commentsphere. My Top Ten list is of the top ten superb commenters whose contributions have helped to make my blog come alive. Over 40 commenters made contributions to the posts on this blog since it began in May this year.

My Top Ten Commenters for 2008 are:

Virginia Yonkers
Ken Stewart
Sue Waters & Sue Waters (-: joint equal :-)
Britt Watwood
Paul C
Michele Martin
Bonnie Kaplan
Laurie Bartels (joint tenth equal)
Christy Tucker (joint tenth equal)
Shaun Wood (joint tenth equal)

According to the terms of Scott McLeod's fantastic commenter award, this entitles the commenters in my top ten list to display the award medal on their blog.

Very close to those were Tom Haskins, Andrea Hernandez,
Tony Karrer, Rose DesRochers, Sarah Stewart and Nancy White, who all made equivalent contributions.

There were many more amazing commenters who did not make this list. I pay a special tribute to those for the significant contribution they made to the discussions in Middle-earth this year.


Andrea Hernandez tagged me at the beginning of this month and I didn’t pick this up until very recently. Her request was to create a Wordle from my blog’s RSS feed, to comment on it, to tag others and to link back to Andrea’s post, The Wordle Meme.

I must say that I got a rather weird Wordle, for no matter how many times I tried, I always got a Wordle blimp and the word trust appearing as a separate display as shown above. I was surprised that trust was featured so prominently, though Andrea did say that Wordle draws from the most recent posts. Two of my latest posts were about trust.

The rest of the blimp reflects what I’d expect, with the foremost words being learner, time, people, resource and resources.

The contributors tagged in this post are invited to participate in the meme of their choice. Details can be found at Life is One Big Top Ten and The Wordle Meme.

A Slice of The Cake

" because whoever has something, will have more given to him."
Mark 4:25

I am not religious, neither am I against religions, but Diane Cordell’s post, The Others, made me think about Mark 4:25.

She asks the questions:

1. Q - Do you believe that our educational culture could be/should be more inclusive?
   
   
2. Q - Are we reaching the Others?”

My reactions to those were immediately, 1. A – yes, 2. A – no.

Diane made me reflect on just how the educational culture that I know could be fairer, so that every learner was included, got a fair share, and got a fair chance to speak out. I wondered about practicalities and the reality of it all.

I left a comment on Diane’s post:

While it is true that teachers are not reaching all learners and all learners are not getting a 'fair share' (whatever that is), the practicality of it all is that teachers can't reach all learners. And of course all learners can't get their fair share.

The question is, how do we go about cutting the cake so that each learner gets their fair share?

I am a distance educator with some 200 or more students. The way the system operates, learners can phone me anytime they wish. I phone them sometimes too. But if a learner phones me and chats for 20 minutes, she's used 8 more minutes than I have allocated per week to spend with her.

A fairer share:

The reality is that my weekly ration is less than 12 minutes per learner to do all I need to do with associated teaching and learning. That includes phoning up the learner if need be. That's about 150 seconds per day per learner.

Fair? I don't think so. But how do I, as teacher, make adjustments so that all learners get a fair crack of my time?

Do I say to a caller, "Sorry, your time is up for this week. Give me a call next week and I'll give you the rest of the help you need"?

Or do I lay aside Jenny's assignment that's next in line for assessing because she spoke to me for 20 minutes on the phone?

After school:

Classroom contact is not much different from this. When I taught in a classroom, I used to give coaching sessions for maths after school. Effectively it gave kids an extra 20% more time with me. You can see the theoretical leverage that had on their achievement. Though in reality it was not quite as efficient as that, it still made a significant difference for those who participated.

A recent study has shown that the reason children from the so-called lower classes don't do so well at school is because, for them, the school IS the learning.

For more privileged children, their learning continues at home and that includes during the holidays. Oh, it's not all maths, science and English for them in the holidays, but it's learning just the same. Their parents groom them in other useful skills in preparation for their place in society. How does a teacher redress that inequity?

An eye for an aye:

Callous I may seem to be, but in the environments that I have taught in, including the present, I adopt the principle that each learner gets from me what they are prepared to give. That's to say, if a learner is prepared to spend time on the phone with me, I am prepared to spend the time with them.

Fair? I think so.